Are you married, or are you committing adultery?

[Tally]

Up until this point, I agreed.

Why, then, does Yakov/'James' say, [yes, paraphrased] "show me your faith by your works [ACTIONS]"?

Abraham - the 'father of our faith' - had his faith counted for 'tzadek'-ness [righteousness] - and yet what he DID was "obey YHVH and keep His commandments." When told to leave - he did. When told to offer "your son, your only son," he did.

I can't help but think that if he had said instead "God knows my heart," and stayed in Ur, Yah would've chosen someone else.

But, admittedly, I've heard that line at least a thousand times. By people whose fruit I didn't see.


I look to Matthew 5:28, where Yahushua "connects the dots" between adultery and lusting for someone else's wife. The point is to "Take every thought CAPTIVE in obedience" to Him. Action follows thought. It's fine to have a 'change of heart.' But it's important to 'walk it out.'
"If you love Me, keep My commands."

I do agree that obedience and sacrifice is important with God, in the old testament it was all about obedience and sacrifice which was not enough to souls because it was not perfect, souls could not be saved until that which is perfect come(our Lord and savior Jesus Christ) If obedience and sacrifice alone was all that is required to save souls then our Lord and savior would had not needed to come. Jesus made the law of soul salvation perfect with his love for us by becoming a sacrifice for us, only now are obedience and sacrifice is made perfect with Love. Obedience and sacrifice is good but only love comes from the heart, without love, obedience and sacrifice and anything else you do will count for nothing (Corinthians 13)

 

[Mojo]

I love the distillation of all of our thoughts.

Thanks for your great contributions @Tally

I hope you stick around.

 

[Otto]

I do agree that obedience and sacrifice is important with God, in the old testament it was all about obedience and sacrifice which was not enough to souls because it was not perfect, souls could not be saved until that which is perfect come(our Lord and savior Jesus Christ) If obedience and sacrifice alone was all that is required to save souls then our Lord and savior would had not needed to come. Jesus made the law of soul salvation perfect with his love for us by becoming a sacrifice for us, only now are obedience and sacrifice is made perfect with Love. Obedience and sacrifice is good but only love comes from the heart, without love, obedience and sacrifice and anything else you do will count for nothing (Corinthians 13)

Wrong. The reason Yahoshua (Jesus) had to come was to save the lost sheep. “I have not come for the righteous but the sinners.”

Did he not confirm that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the Kingdom? Is the God we serve the God of unequal weights? Meaning - if all of the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had their hearts - would they not all also be in the Kingdom? Instead, it was just a small remnant, and most of the house of Jacob has been scattered throughout the nations (for due cause). And isn’t that what Yahoshua said:

John 8:39
No,” Jesus replied, “for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example. 40 Instead, you are trying to kill me because I told you the truth, which I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41 No, you are imitating your real father.”

My recommendation - go back and study the Kings and Chronciles. Then study the prophets. If you don’t know the history that lead to the Messiah - you will be deceived by the devil.

When he fulfills Sukkot (just like he fulfilled Passover), the two sticks will be re-joined together. He will be King, and every knee will bow down to the glory of the Father - YHVH. I do believe we are currently living during the fulfillment of Atonement. He is the Atonement. Trumpets was fulfilled when he first judged Jerusalem - and then shortly after he judged Emperor Nero and the Gentiles (Roman Empire). The enemy has erased this from our history books, and transferred the credit to a pagan (Constantine). But it’s recorded in the book of Revelation in fine print. We live in the age of Atonement - with Sukkot knocking at the door. After World War 3 truly kicks off - we will be in the season for the greater exodus.

 

[Tally]

Wrong. The reason Yahoshua (Jesus) had to come was to save the lost sheep. “I have not come for the righteous but the sinners.”

Did he not confirm that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the Kingdom? Is the God we serve the God of unequal weights? Meaning - if all of the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had their hearts - would they not all also be in the Kingdom? Instead, it was just a small remnant, and most of the house of Jacob has been scattered throughout the nations. And isn’t that what Yahoshua said:

John 8:39
No,” Jesus replied, “for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example. 40 Instead, you are trying to kill me because I told you the truth, which I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41 No, you are imitating your real father.”

My recommendation - go back and study the Kings and Chronciles. Then study the prophets. If you don’t know the history that lead to the Messiah - you will be deceived by the devil.

When he fulfills Sukkot (just like he fulfilled Passover), the two sticks will be re-joined together. He will be King, and every knee will bow down to the glory of the Father - YHVH. I do believe we are currently living during the fulfillment of Atonement. He is the Atonement. Trumpets was fulfilled when he first judged Jerusalem - and then shortly after he judged Emperor Nero and the Gentiles. The enemy has erased this from our history books, but it’s recorded in the book of Revelation. We live in the age of Atonement - with Sukkot knocking at the door.

When Jesus spoke, he spoke in many parables to confuse the enemy, for all Israel was lost and had Jesus not come to redeem man back unto God, all of man kind would of perish, Hebrews 10: 4-6 (For it is NOT possible for the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest NOT, but a body hast thou prepared me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had NO pleasure). Knowing history or not, no man is immune to the devil deception else we would be perfect men, but once we have God on our side, we can drink any deadly poison and it won't have any affect on us, same as if we be deceived by satan at any time, God is more than able to deliver us up again with a new testimony that will bring much honor and glory to his name.

 

[Tally]

I love the distillation of all of our thoughts.

Thanks for your great contributions @Tally

I hope you stick around.

Thank you, I love it here and hope to stay for a very long time in the will of the Lord.

 

[The Revolting Man]

You can never have a satisfactory answer to this question because your assumptions won’t fit into one.
You seem to think that Yah missed this gaping loophole when He laid His plans out for marriage.

None of us can have a satisfactory answer to this question because God made some very difficult statements about it that are hard to reconcile to our modern morality.

But the statements he did make reinforce my stance. And no, they’re not statements we talk about much because they make us all uncomfortable; hypocrites that we are.

 

[Otto]

When Jesus spoke, he spoke in many parables to confuse the enemy, for all Israel was lost and had Jesus not come to redeem man back unto God, all of man kind would of perish, Hebrews 10: 4-6 (For it is NOT possible for the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest NOT, but a body hast thou prepared me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had NO pleasure). Knowing history or not, no man is immune to the devil deception else we would be perfect men, but once we have God on our side, we can drink any deadly poison and it won't have any affect on us, same as if we be deceived by satan at any time, God is more than able to deliver us up again with a new testimony that will bring much honor and glory to his name.

All Israel was not lost - YAH always preserved a remnant. John the Baptist was not lost. The parents of John were declared to be righteous, and blameless (Luke 1:6). Mary was full of grace, and a righteous woman. Her husband was righteous. There was definitely a remnant even in the first century that were righteous and faithful to YHVH.

However, a major part of Israel was indeed lost. Also, not just lost but also exiled and given a certificate of divorce. These 10 lost tribes assimilated among the nations/gentiles, so it’s also a case of “lost identity.” These are the lost sheep of Israel. The other lost sheep of Israel were the Yahudans (Jews) - which many of them were under bondage to the religious leaders of the time - whom were adding to the already perfect Torah - and putting a heavy burden on the people.

Regarding Hebrews 10:4-6 - the blood of Messiah clears of sin. His blood covers even the sins of those that perished before his sacrifice. Yet, not all who perish are covered. Yet, not all who perish receive his grace. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob received grace. They are in the Kingdom. There are shadow pictures that point to Messiah. Passover was a shadow picture. The first exodus is a shadow picture of the greater exodus, and Joshua leading the people to the Holy land is another (unfulfilled) shadow picture.

 

[Tally]

All Israel was not lost - YAH always preserved a remnant. John the Baptist was not lost. The parents of John were declared to be righteous, and blameless (Luke 1:6). Mary was full of grace, and a righteous woman. Her husband was righteous. There was definitely a remnant even in the first century that were righteous and faithful to YHVH.

However, a major part of Israel was indeed lost. Also, not just lost but also exiled and given a certificate of divorce. These 10 lost tribes assimilated among the nations/gentiles, so it’s also a case of “lost identity.” These are the lost sheep of Israel. The other lost sheep of Israel were the Yahudans (Jews) - which many of them were under bondage to the religious leaders of the time - whom were adding to the already perfect Torah - and putting a heavy burden on the people.

Regarding Hebrews 10:4-6 - the blood of Messiah clears of sin. His blood covers even the sins of those that perished before his sacrifice. Yet, not all who perish are covered. Yet, not all who perish receive his grace. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob received grace. They are in the Kingdom. There are shadow pictures that point to Messiah. Passover was a shadow picture. The first exodus is a shadow picture of the greater exodus, and Joshua leading the people to the Holy land is another (unfulfilled) shadow picture.

What I would like you to help me understand is, if all was not lost, then what were they that was not lost saved by? and can we today not be saved by the same as they that was saved before Christ? If we cant be save by the same, then why not? and if we can be saved by the same, then what is the purpose of Jesus Christ sacrifice?

 

[frederick]

What I would like you to help me understand is, if all was not lost, then what were they that was not lost saved by? and can we today not be saved by the same as they that was saved before Christ? If we cant be save by the same, then why not? and if we can be saved by the same, then what is the purpose of Jesus Christ sacrifice?

Brother, please allow me to chip in here. Salvation has always been by the grace of God through faith. We are told Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness (Romans 4:3). I would encourage you to read Hebrews Chapter 11 where we have the record of some of the heroes of the faith who obtained a good testimony through faith (Hebrews 11:39). The blood sacrifices offered before the Saviour came could not take away sin (Heb. 10:4) but covered them until the one perfect blood sacrifice was made by the Lamb of God.

All people who are ever saved, whether Jews or gentiles, are saved by the grace of God through faith in Him. Ephesians 2:8-9, For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Shalom

 

[steve]

None of us can have a satisfactory answer to this question because God made some very difficult statements about it that are hard to reconcile to our modern morality.

But the statements he did make reinforce my stance. And no, they’re not statements we talk about much because they make us all uncomfortable; hypocrites that we are.

No
This is not one of the Great Mysteries.
It’s only a mystery to you.

It is sad to me that you would hold a position that is so abusive to women.

 

[Otto]

What I would like you to help me understand is, if all was not lost, then what were they that was not lost saved by? and can we today not be saved by the same as they that was saved before Christ? If we cant be save by the same, then why not? and if we can be saved by the same, then what is the purpose of Jesus Christ sacrifice?

They were saved through faith - by keeping YHVH’s commandments in faith and love.

Righteous men like Job, Noah, and Daniel are saved for this type of faith.

YHVH didn’t keep humanity in the dark until he appeared in the Son as ‘YAH is Salvation.’ The message of Salvation was given to them - “If you love me keep my commandments. Why do you call me lord lord and not do what I say?” YHVH wants nothing to do with his people prostituting themselves:

Isaiah 57:13
Let’s see if your idols can save you when you cry to them for help. Why, a puff of wind can knock them down! If you just breathe on them, they fall over! But whoever trusts in me will inherit the land and possess my holy mountain.

That promise (possess my Holy mountain) is written in the “present tense” before he showed up as the Son. Salvation was given to them, and a remnant found it.

 

[Otto]

then what is the purpose of Jesus Christ sacrifice?

What is the purpose of YHVH’s sacrifice? The great “I AM?” “Yah is Salvation?”

Well he says it - he is the bread of life. The Word made flesh. Whomever does not eat his flesh has no life. “Sanctification leads to life.” Sanctify them by the truth - your word is truth (John 17:17).

He is calling people out of spiritual darkness and into the light (the truth shall set you free). He is calling people out of the bondage of religious authorities - who pervert the commandments of YHVH (Mark 7:6-13).

He is giving people a chance to return back to him - and his blood will cover their sins.

This is the good news of the Gospel. It’s humanity’s chance to return to their Father and Creator, and because of the Son’s sacrifice this good news has reached countless number of people. The Bible is widely regarded as truth and freely available. What is the purpose of his sacrifice? To lay the table for the nations and peoples to choose once again - life or death. Before the book closes for good, and the Great White throne commences.

 

[The Revolting Man]

No
This is not one of the Great Mysteries.
It’s only a mystery to you.

It is sad to me that you would hold a position that is so abusive to women.

Then you explain Deuteronomy 22:28-29. I’ll be interested to see how this fits in to the sex doesn’t equal marriage worldview.

 

[Mark C]

Then you explain Deuteronomy 22:28-29. I’ll be interested to see how this fits in to the sex doesn’t equal marriage worldview.

Would you finally read that response this time around? Does YHVH have to keep repeating Himself, or is saying that the father has "veto authority" more than once (including the story of Dinah!) not sufficient?

Or are you seriously arguing that a serial rapist has many wives?

 

[Otto]

Then you explain Deuteronomy 22:28-29. I’ll be interested to see how this fits in to the sex doesn’t equal marriage worldview.

YAH does not have to repeat himself. Deut 22:28:29 does not contradict or nullify his previous instruction from Exodus 22:17. I know atheists that look for reasons not to seek their Creator, and Deut 22:28:29 is one of their favorite verses to quote. They've never read the Bible, but they have something their itching ears wanna hear.

 

[steve]

Then you explain Deuteronomy 22:28-29. I’ll be interested to see how this fits in to the sex doesn’t equal marriage worldview.

Does Deuteronomy 22 cancel Exodus 17?

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

Does Deuteronomy 22 cancel Exodus 17?

IF we go back and read Duet chapter 1 we see Moses is RETELLING the story of the exodus and reminding people of the commands that he gave in Gen, Exo and Lev. Duet is a second telling, not a new set of commands. It has been 40 years and he wants them to recall the instructions as he is about to die and wants them to remember that all the instructions are still valid and binding...

 

[The Revolting Man]

Would you finally read that response this time around? Does YHVH have to keep repeating Himself, or is saying that the father has "veto authority" more than once (including the story of Dinah!) not sufficient?

Or are you seriously arguing that a serial rapist has many wives?

I’m sorry; I must be very dense. Where is the father’s veto in Deuteronomy 22:28-29? I missed it. Oh no, I just reread it. It’s not in there anywhere. So now you have the heavily disputed seduction passage, the completely unsupportable (for this purpose) Numbers 30, and a very Roman Catholic style argument of typology based on the story of the rape of Dinah.

You won’t try and support your interpretation of the seduction passage or Numbers 30, Deuteronomy 22:28-29 has nothing about it that says the father has a veto and Dinah’s story is an absolute shit show from start to finish; and that’s setting aside the fact that there are no instructions or commentary attached to the story and the verse you’re going to cite is a quote from a pagan rapist.

If you’re honest you can see why I’m not just rolling over on this one. Your evidence is a little light in the evidentiary department.

 

[The Revolting Man]

YAH does not have to repeat himself. Deut 22:28:29 does not contradict or nullify his previous instruction from Exodus 22:17. I know atheists that look for reasons not to seek their Creator, and Deut 22:28:29 is one of their favorite verses to quote. They've never read the Bible, but they have something their itching ears wanna hear.

First off you do think God has to repeat himself because I’ve heard you use the ridiculous “wasn’t established by two witnesses” defense.

But I guess I am going to need a little clarification here. Are you saying that the consensual seduction of Exodus 22:17 is the exact same thing as the rape in Deuteronomy 22:28-29? I find that an extraordinary claim and one that I don’t think you thought through before you made it.

Let’s aside a minute that a literal application of Exodus 22 doesn’t give the father a veto power over one flesh. For the purposes of a brief discussion let’s assume that it does.

You can’t be implying that the rape of Deuteronomy 22 is the same moral and legal act as the consensual seduction of Exodus 22 and so should be treated the same way. You can’t be saying for 50 shekels of silver men can lawfully rape virgins with no consequences?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Does Deuteronomy 22 cancel Exodus 17?

These are two entirely different circumstances. One is a rape and one is not. But do you claim that Exodus 22:17 cancels Deuteronomy 22:28-29?

Do you say that they contradict each other? Because if they do then we have a much bigger problem.